Another view

~ beetleypete

With the current situation in America dominating the headlines, and most social media, it is almost impossible to find another view that is well-balanced, well researched, and written by someone who has personally experienced racism.

But here is one, and it is well-worth reading. If only for some sense of balance.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1268898468766134279.html

I am unable to reblog it, so only have that link to it.

55 thoughts on “Another view”

  1. I’ve been thinking about that article a lot lately, I’ve done some checking of my own, and cannot agree to some “facts” quoted here nor to all the cnclusions. Let me just mention a few of my thoughts:

    – My first and foremost general objection is that it does not at all take into account the centuries-old suppression of African Americans in the US.

    – ” African Americans kill more white people in the US than white people kill African Americans.” The statistics I found [FBI for 2017 only, but other years are similar] show exactly the opposite: of a total of 3,499 people murdered, 2,854 were murdered by whites, and “only” 533 by African Americans. Of a total of 2,870 African Americans murdered, 243 were killed by whites, but 2,570 by blacks.
    – Daniel Shaver: I HAVE heard of him and his case DID make the papers. The officer who shot him, btw, was on trial for second degree murder.
    My comment: it was a “white-on-white” shooting, and there WAS a trial, something that only very lately, and only after the present protests, happened when a white police officer shoots a black person.
    – The cases of Sam DuBose and Andrew Thomas are NOT the same: DuBose was shot while driving away, Thomas when he climbed out of his wrecked car.
    – Loren Simpson: first of all, he was NOT a teenager, but 28 years of age. In this case here (((Amir Pars))) didn’t check his “facts”.
    To say he “was shot dead by the police in eerily similar circumstances as George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin” is an absolute misrepresentation:
    Loren Simpson drove his car towards a road block manned by police, Trayvon Martin, an unarmed person just walking in the neighbourhood, was – against police advice – followed by a self-appointed “vigilante”, who shot him and then claimed self-defense.
    – “For every 10, 000 black people arrested for violent crime, 3 are killed by the police. For every 10, 000 white people arrested for violent crime, 4 are killed by the police.” That is an unfair method of argumentation, as African American are far fewer in the US than whites. To present these figures can only be called “biased” hiding of the true facts.
    – “In 2019, 49 unarmed people were killed by the police. 9 were black. 19 were white.”
    According to my findings [Washington Post Database] the figures are different: “there were 55 incidents in which police shot and killed unarmed individuals in 2019. Twenty-five were white and 14 black.” Check out a graph in the Washington Post’s database here: https://wapo.st/policeshootings
    My comment: That Washington Posts conclusion “… that’s not representative of the population of the United States. Black Americans are more likely to be shot and killed by police when unarmed than are whites” is way m,ore rational than (((Amir Pars))) rather inane remark “The likelihood for a black person being shot by the police is as high as being struck by lightning.” Compare this to “About 100 in 100,000 black men and boys will be killed by police during their lives, while 39 white men and boys per 100,000 are killed by police. This means black men are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than white men.” [“Michigan News, University of Michigan”]
    – “And why does this so called “White Supremacy” only run against one group of Black Americans? Why doesn’t it run against Asian Americans, who out earn White Americans by over 60%? Why doesn’t it apply to Jewish Americans? Or Indian Americans, all of whom earn more than”
    Again, this is not true: “White Supremacists” DO run against these groups as well.

    I could go on and nanalyse the remainder of his text, but may the above comments suffice. I think it proves my point that this article, in spite of at first glance looking like unbiased argumentation based on facts and supported by statistics, is in fact – in some parts at least – a misleading distortion.
    In that context I am really wondering who (((Amir Pars))) is. Except for him having been on Twitter since 2011, I could not find anything else. And that, in turn, makes me wonder about his agenda.

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    1. Thanks for your thoughts, and your detailed research, Pit. I peesented this as an alternative view, and the links do seem to confirm his stats, though obviously other references differ. I don’t know him, and have no axe to grind about the George Floyd situation. I was mainly interested because my experience in the UK is that most black men are shot (or killed by other means) by other black men, but I accept that the UK and US are very different places.
      As with any opinion piece on either side, some supposed facts may or may not be true, but I thought it had some interest as an oppoiste viewpoint.
      Best wishes, Pete.

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      1. Thank you, Pete, again for making me aware of that piece of writing. We certainly need alternative/different points of view, to encourage us to think. And that’s what I tried to do: think again, and check, about the situation here in the US. There are certainly quite a few points in his text that are worth thinking about, and there’s a lot that needs to be improved here.
        Best,
        Pit

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  3. Thank you for the information, Pete! Its horrible, what happend in the USA. But we should not forget, racism is all over the world.In my opinion, racism is always a problem when there is also income inequality. Here in Bavaria, there is a state crackdown on racism. But discrimination continues. Almost all German Länder have a position against discrimination. Bavaria has only one commissioner for Jewish life. Not even one against antisemitism. Do you hear the bells ringing? 😉 Michael

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  4. I think what is at play here is the awakening of so many people to the systemic racism that is evident worldwide that leads to the outcomes both in the article you linked to and that are currently under discussion. This isn’t about George Floyd. His murder is just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I am happy to provide a reading list for anyone who wants to do some reading about systemic racism.

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      1. They all may be OK, I still maintain there is a bit of a need for both fact-checking the assertion with the evidence and the overall logic. for if we accept all of what he says as correct then he has made the perfect case for systematic or some kind of regular discrimination in this society. On that point he is correct, but he does not actually say that. Warmest regards, Theo

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  6. An interesting read, given the stats that are thrown at us by the media about the likelihood of dying in police custody or getting arrested in the first place or frequency of stop and search if you are black, its hard to get a balanced view.
    Personally I have always believed that we should be working to improve the lives of all by having a more inclusive, fair, socialist system, sadly this idea will always be trumped by greed.
    Having gone to school with many Indian and Pakistanis and considered many of them friends I never thought of them as different until I went to college in a bigger town where racism seemed to the norm amongst my fellow students. I wonder how there experience was different to mine? I never asked back them, but I have since asked friends who hold racist views and I’m often told that their views are those held by their parents and they have just gone along with it, which whilst scary is also a sign of hope, because it means that it can be changed as the generation move forward.
    The quote by MLK ‘be judged based on the content of their character, not the colour of their skin’ deservedly got the biggest applause.

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    1. My mum and dad were quite racist in my childhood, though like most people, they didn’t include black singers or entertainers in their attitude. If anything, they made me go in the opposite direction, and I even had a West Indian girlfriend for a very short time when I was 14. Ironically, it was her parents who did not want her to go out with a white boy.
      Best wishes, Pete.

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  9. An excellent article, Pete. So many valid points. Too bad we live in a world where emotions rule over facts. Had George Floyd been shot by a policeman, his death would have generated the publicity and protesting as is usual in a white cop/black victim. It would be another fact. But the 8+ minute video of the cold methodical murder by the cold methodical cop was not just another fact, but an emotion causing world eruption. Too bad we don’t consider both sides before we make absolute judgments.

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  10. As Fraggle said: very interesting and thought-provoking. But: should there be no outrage about the killing of George Floyd just because there has been no outrage about the killings of white men?

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    1. I’m not sure he is saying that, Pit. More like there should be equal outrage I think.. I wanted to find an ‘opposite’ well-balanced non-racist view, and I think this is one. But of course I don’t necessarily expect anyone else to agree with that.
      Best wishes, Pete.

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  12. i stopped watching the news Pete. there is no trust there anymore. for someone who had experience firsthand racism, Amir makes valid points. thank you for the link. very interesting and thought provoking. 🙂 🙂

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  13. Amir makes some interesting points. Unsurprisingly this issue has many sides. I do believe there is widespread racism in the U.S. not only in police departments but as part of our society as well. I’ve witnessed it numerous times in the predominantly white town I lived most of my life in with its corrupt police force. When looking at how to change things, everything has to be examined. We can’t blame everything on one thing or group. If we’re actually going to try to fix this, this time, all sides need to be willing to listen and learn. I hope I’m making sense. I’ve got a horrible migraine this morning so my brains a bit fuzzy.

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  14. It’s not the color, it’s the culture. Most people, have no idea how much we are manipulated by others.

    Fads, buzz-words help keep us apart. How do you become an Irish-American, or an African-American. Even if you came from another country, if you are living here as an American, that is what you should be. No color, no shape, no manner of speaking should divide us, or put a prefix to our world. Let us all be human first.

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  15. I have heard these arguments many, many times. It’s within the purview of, “why can black people say the “N” word and white people can’t?” Really? You don’t understand that? It’s called nuance. It’s called I can call my sister a conceited bitch, but you can’t call her that. If you call her that I’m going to kick your ass, or die trying. I can call her a conceited bitch affectionately, but you don’t have the license to call her that, because you don’t know her like I do.
    Yes, black on black crime is a problem. Black on white crime is a problem. White on black crime is a problem, and so on and so forth. But that’s not the issue here. The issue is systemic racism within white majority police departments directed toward people of color; black people predominately. The police have extraordinary power. And, for the most part, they must have that power to protect and serve. But with great power comes great responsibility.
    My two cents worth.

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      1. Me too, Pete. I think it is very important to be fair. His opinion is as valid as mine or anybody’s. He makes some valid points, but this movement is about police violence. That said, I’m glad you posted his thoughts.

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  18. Yes, there is always a bigger picture and nor can we lump people together; people of colour is perhaps a better term, but still all those who label themselves or are labelled by others have roots from every continent, religion, culture and class with often a good dose of ‘white European’ genes as well. All people deserve respect, but all need to earn it as well. Good honest citizens come in all shades, so do bad citizens.

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  22. In the late 1980s I was called into the HQ of the Sowetan newspaper in Johannesburg to take a brief from the editor, a real gentleman, Agree Klalster. He needed a video to take on his trip to America for his ‘self-help’ scheme that he was rolling out. I expected the usual rant about colonialism and unfair dominance etc but instead, I got a list of stats of the situation in the US re Black Americans – 75% jail population, 72% drug problems etc. Mr Klaister said he was ashamed to be black, because his people had not got off their backsides to make things better for themselves but sat back with their hands out waiting for everything to be given to them. He sited Liberia, a country mired in chaos and corruption, a country given freely to returning slaves, with no colonial ties or influence. I sat there with my mouth wide open. He was so frustrated that those with roots in Africa were doing nothing for themselves. I made the very best programme I could for him to take with him to the US. However, he has since passed on and sadly I don’t think the Nation Building campaign is active any longer.

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